{"post_stream":{"posts":[{"id":23419,"name":"Rosano","username":"rosano","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/rosano/{size}/2106_2.png","created_at":"2024-07-26T14:31:57.013Z","cooked":"\u003cp\u003eI asked \u003ca class=\"mention\" href=\"/u/noeldemartin\"\u003e@NoelDeMartin\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca class=\"mention\" href=\"/u/vincent\"\u003e@Vincent\u003c/a\u003e, \u003ca class=\"mention\" href=\"/u/timea\"\u003e@Timea\u003c/a\u003e, and \u003ca class=\"mention\" href=\"/u/timbot1789\"\u003e@timbot1789\u003c/a\u003e about Solid interop and they shared their thoughts.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003caside class=\"onebox allowlistedgeneric\" data-onebox-src=\"https://pdsinterop.org/practice/\"\u003e\n  \u003cheader class=\"source\"\u003e\n      \u003cimg src=\"https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/uploads/solidproject/original/2X/b/bf86a55da1aa8b536e1b4f37fccf510748dac9d7.png\" class=\"site-icon\" data-dominant-color=\"C1B1A2\" width=\"16\" height=\"16\"\u003e\n\n      \u003ca href=\"https://pdsinterop.org/practice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow ugc\"\u003ePDS Interop\u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/header\u003e\n\n  \u003carticle class=\"onebox-body\"\u003e\n    \n\n\u003ch3\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://pdsinterop.org/practice/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow ugc\"\u003eSolid Interop in Practice\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/h3\u003e\n\n  \u003cp\u003ePDS Interop organisation website\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\n  \u003c/article\u003e\n\n  \u003cdiv class=\"onebox-metadata\"\u003e\n    \n    \n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\n  \u003cdiv style=\"clear: both\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/aside\u003e\n","post_number":1,"post_type":1,"posts_count":3,"updated_at":"2024-07-26T14:31:57.013Z","reply_count":0,"reply_to_post_number":null,"quote_count":0,"incoming_link_count":25,"reads":33,"readers_count":32,"score":251.6,"yours":false,"topic_id":7701,"topic_slug":"solid-interop-in-practice","display_username":"Rosano","primary_group_name":null,"flair_name":null,"flair_url":null,"flair_bg_color":null,"flair_color":null,"flair_group_id":null,"badges_granted":[],"version":1,"can_edit":false,"can_delete":false,"can_recover":false,"can_see_hidden_post":false,"can_wiki":false,"link_counts":[{"url":"https://pdsinterop.org/practice/","internal":false,"reflection":false,"title":"Solid Interop in Practice | PDS Interop","clicks":61},{"url":"https://forum.solidproject.org/t/solid-sustainability/7655/6","internal":true,"reflection":true,"title":"Solid Sustainability","clicks":0}],"read":true,"user_title":null,"bookmarked":false,"actions_summary":[{"id":2,"count":6}],"moderator":false,"admin":false,"staff":false,"user_id":1390,"hidden":false,"trust_level":2,"deleted_at":null,"user_deleted":false,"edit_reason":null,"can_view_edit_history":false,"wiki":false,"post_url":"/t/solid-interop-in-practice/7701/1","reactions":[{"id":"heart","type":"emoji","count":6}],"current_user_reaction":null,"reaction_users_count":6,"current_user_used_main_reaction":false,"can_accept_answer":false,"can_unaccept_answer":false,"accepted_answer":false,"topic_accepted_answer":null},{"id":23728,"name":"elf Pavlik","username":"elf-pavlik","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/elf-pavlik/{size}/611_2.png","created_at":"2024-10-01T20:23:46.493Z","cooked":"\u003cp\u003eThanks, everyone, for gathering this critical feedback!\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eDependency management in general is a bit of a mess, specially in JavaScript -.-. I think the problem arises from the fragmentation in the JS ecosystem, there are just too many tools and environments: Node, Deno, Bun, Webpack, Vite, Rollup, ESBuild, etc… All of that coupled with the fact that JavaScript is supposed to be backwards compatible, and add TypeScript into the mix, and you’ve got a big mess \u003cimg src=\"https://emoji.discourse-cdn.com/apple/dizzy_face.png?v=12\" title=\":dizzy_face:\" class=\"emoji\" alt=\":dizzy_face:\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"20\" height=\"20\"\u003e. But it seems like most JS devs feel the same way, so I’m definitely not alone :/.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eAs a dev community, we can and should help one another overcome those problems. Since this is not specific to Solid, I would prefer not to discuss any specific nuances of any particular programming language on this thread.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSo, while I have no problem with creating the data model myself, I didn’t make time to share my vocabularies or shapes because I felt the ecosystem wasn’t ready for it anyway.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eSince we want apps to interoperate, no developer should be creaing the data model themselves. As Solid CG, we are making close to no progress on client-to-client specs. Since Linked Web Storage WG will be taking over the core spec work, I hope Solid CG can prioritize answering the developer’s needs for standard data models.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003ea lack of standardized discovery process by which an app can find a pod or determine what data is inside. Type Indexes attempt to solve this, but as a type index is not enforced by the server, it requires each app to enforce the type index. This makes the type index untrustworthy, as an app needs to be able to trust that all other apps using the type index are updating it properly. I am also aware of the existence of SAI, but it’s unclear to me how to use it, or if it is supported in all servers.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eOne challenge is that the main story for interoperability is not clear, and there’s no “official way” to do it. So each developer has to decide what they want to do. There are basically two possibilities now: Type Indexes and Solid Application Interoperability (SAI). Type Indexes is the only one you can use in practice, so it’s the way my apps work, but it’s still a draft and has some limitations, so I understand why some people don’t use it yet. SAI is also still a draft and requires server-side implementation, so even though I’m very excited about it, I don’t think I’ll use it until it’s part of the official spec and supported in most pods.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI have submitted a new proposal to NLnet to wrap up my work on \u003ca href=\"https://sai.js.org\" rel=\"noopener nofollow ugc\"\u003ehttps://sai.js.org\u003c/a\u003e. As part of it, I want to rewrite the included Authorization Agent service as a CSS extension (which still can be deployed separately). This would allow any CSS deployment to support SAI out of the box.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cblockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eTo me, interoperability means different apps can access the same data in new, novel ways that fit their use case. A to-do app allows you to create calendar events for each to-do item without opening your calendar. Emails can be opened with either a traditional “inbox” interface or an IM chat interface. You can message your doctor, and then in the chat, share your medical records with them.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eI see it as an essential aspect of client-to-client effort. Some types of data are very specific for a given domain: prescriptions, blueprints, milestones, etc.\u003cbr\u003e\nAt the same time, various types of data are so common that they appear in most domains: contacts, calendar events, messages, etc.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eIt will most likely take a lot of effort to structure that work in a way that different domains can be modeled by the experts in those domains while, at the same time, there is an overarching effort for those common types of data.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThis contextual aspect should also be captured in use cases when it comes to authorization and access policies. For example, a hospitality exchange app might get access to messages related to a hospitality request but not messages between users and their doctors related to their therapy. In SAI, there are Inherited Data Grants that rely on the relation in the data instead of expecting users to create artificial directory structures. There is a lot of feedback on the design of containers in Solid. Most likely, the LWS WG will be stewarding the any future re(work) but Solid CG should still help with gathering feedback and documenting various use cases.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003eThere is a lot more to follow up on in this report. I proposed it as a topic for the Solid CG weekly plenary tomorrow. I hope we will seize the opportunity and incorporate this feedback in the ongoing spec and implementation work.\u003c/p\u003e","post_number":2,"post_type":1,"posts_count":3,"updated_at":"2024-10-01T20:23:46.493Z","reply_count":1,"reply_to_post_number":null,"quote_count":0,"incoming_link_count":2,"reads":22,"readers_count":21,"score":19.4,"yours":false,"topic_id":7701,"topic_slug":"solid-interop-in-practice","display_username":"elf Pavlik","primary_group_name":null,"flair_name":null,"flair_url":null,"flair_bg_color":null,"flair_color":null,"flair_group_id":null,"badges_granted":[],"version":1,"can_edit":false,"can_delete":false,"can_recover":false,"can_see_hidden_post":false,"can_wiki":false,"link_counts":[{"url":"https://sai.js.org","internal":false,"reflection":false,"title":"Solid Application Interoperability (TypeScript) | sai-js","clicks":2}],"read":true,"user_title":null,"bookmarked":false,"actions_summary":[],"moderator":false,"admin":false,"staff":false,"user_id":473,"hidden":false,"trust_level":2,"deleted_at":null,"user_deleted":false,"edit_reason":null,"can_view_edit_history":false,"wiki":false,"post_url":"/t/solid-interop-in-practice/7701/2","reactions":[],"current_user_reaction":null,"reaction_users_count":0,"current_user_used_main_reaction":false,"can_accept_answer":false,"can_unaccept_answer":false,"accepted_answer":false,"topic_accepted_answer":null},{"id":23736,"name":"Joseph Guillaume","username":"josephguillaume","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/josephguillaume/{size}/1072_2.png","created_at":"2024-10-02T08:59:04.859Z","cooked":"\u003cp\u003eIf anyone is in a position to help, I’ve been trying to document the Umai data model using shape trees and have gotten stuck on the right way to describe the presence of four different shapes in one document:\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003caside class=\"onebox githubissue\" data-onebox-src=\"https://github.com/shapetrees/specification/issues/79\"\u003e\n  \u003cheader class=\"source\"\u003e\n\n      \u003ca href=\"https://github.com/shapetrees/specification/issues/79\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow ugc\"\u003egithub.com/shapetrees/specification\u003c/a\u003e\n  \u003c/header\u003e\n\n  \u003carticle class=\"onebox-body\"\u003e\n    \u003cdiv class=\"github-row\"\u003e\n  \u003cdiv class=\"github-icon-container\" title=\"Issue\" data-github-private-repo=\"false\"\u003e\n\t  \u003csvg width=\"60\" height=\"60\" class=\"github-icon\" viewBox=\"0 0 14 16\" aria-hidden=\"true\"\u003e\u003cpath fill-rule=\"evenodd\" d=\"M7 2.3c3.14 0 5.7 2.56 5.7 5.7s-2.56 5.7-5.7 5.7A5.71 5.71 0 0 1 1.3 8c0-3.14 2.56-5.7 5.7-5.7zM7 1C3.14 1 0 4.14 0 8s3.14 7 7 7 7-3.14 7-7-3.14-7-7-7zm1 3H6v5h2V4zm0 6H6v2h2v-2z\"\u003e\u003c/path\u003e\u003c/svg\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\n  \u003cdiv class=\"github-info-container\"\u003e\n    \u003ch4\u003e\n      \u003ca href=\"https://github.com/shapetrees/specification/issues/79\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow ugc\"\u003eSpecifying that a document should validate against multiple shapes?\u003c/a\u003e\n    \u003c/h4\u003e\n\n    \u003cdiv class=\"github-info\"\u003e\n      \u003cdiv class=\"date\"\u003e\n        opened \u003cspan class=\"discourse-local-date\" data-format=\"ll\" data-date=\"2024-08-24\" data-time=\"00:50:26\" data-timezone=\"UTC\"\u003e12:50AM - 24 Aug 24 UTC\u003c/span\u003e\n      \u003c/div\u003e\n\n\n      \u003cdiv class=\"user\"\u003e\n        \u003ca href=\"https://github.com/josephguillaume\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener nofollow ugc\"\u003e\n          \u003cimg alt=\"josephguillaume\" src=\"https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/uploads/solidproject/original/2X/a/a17ef26a22478e305eea6567a8a4757c6151909e.jpeg\" class=\"onebox-avatar-inline\" width=\"20\" height=\"20\" data-dominant-color=\"939393\"\u003e\n          josephguillaume\n        \u003c/a\u003e\n      \u003c/div\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n\n    \u003cdiv class=\"labels\"\u003e\n    \u003c/div\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/div\u003e\n\n  \u003cdiv class=\"github-row\"\u003e\n    \u003cp class=\"github-body-container\"\u003eApologies if this is answered somewhere I didn't find.\n\nI'm trying to model th\u003cspan class=\"show-more-container\"\u003e\u003ca href=\"\" rel=\"noopener\" class=\"show-more\"\u003e…\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan class=\"excerpt hidden\"\u003ee situation where a document includes multiple resources that should validate against different shapes.\n\nMy intuition is to use st:shape:\n\n```\n:UmaiResourceShape a st:ShapeTree;\nst:expectsType st:Resource;\nst:shape :RecipeShape, :HowToStepShape, :CrdtShapeMetadata, :CrdtShapeOperation.\n```\nhttps://github.com/NoelDeMartin/umai/issues/22\n\nBut this seems to be inconsistent with the definition \"An { ST st:shape SH } triple indicates that managed resource R has at most one node which conforms to shape SH\"\n\nIt seems that using st:references might be intended, but it's not clear to me what the st:viaShapePath would be. The relationship being expressed is that the LDP resource is a subgraph that includes multiple nodes conforming, each conforming to different shapes.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\n  \u003c/article\u003e\n\n  \u003cdiv class=\"onebox-metadata\"\u003e\n    \n    \n  \u003c/div\u003e\n\n  \u003cdiv style=\"clear: both\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n\u003c/aside\u003e\n","post_number":3,"post_type":1,"posts_count":3,"updated_at":"2024-10-02T08:59:04.859Z","reply_count":0,"reply_to_post_number":2,"quote_count":0,"incoming_link_count":0,"reads":13,"readers_count":12,"score":17.6,"yours":false,"topic_id":7701,"topic_slug":"solid-interop-in-practice","display_username":"Joseph Guillaume","primary_group_name":null,"flair_name":null,"flair_url":null,"flair_bg_color":null,"flair_color":null,"flair_group_id":null,"badges_granted":[],"version":1,"can_edit":false,"can_delete":false,"can_recover":false,"can_see_hidden_post":false,"can_wiki":false,"link_counts":[{"url":"https://github.com/shapetrees/specification/issues/79","internal":false,"reflection":false,"title":"Specifying that a document should validate against multiple shapes? · Issue #79 · shapetrees/specification · GitHub","clicks":8}],"read":true,"user_title":null,"reply_to_user":{"id":473,"username":"elf-pavlik","name":"elf 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Practice","posts_count":3,"created_at":"2024-07-26T14:31:56.962Z","views":241,"reply_count":1,"like_count":7,"last_posted_at":"2024-10-02T08:59:04.859Z","visible":true,"closed":false,"archived":false,"has_summary":false,"archetype":"regular","slug":"solid-interop-in-practice","category_id":1,"word_count":885,"deleted_at":null,"user_id":1390,"featured_link":"https://pdsinterop.org/practice/","featured_link_root_domain":"pdsinterop.org","pinned_globally":false,"pinned_at":null,"pinned_until":null,"image_url":null,"slow_mode_seconds":0,"draft":null,"draft_key":"topic_7701","draft_sequence":null,"unpinned":null,"pinned":false,"current_post_number":1,"highest_post_number":3,"deleted_by":null,"actions_summary":[{"id":4,"count":0,"hidden":false,"can_act":false},{"id":8,"count":0,"hidden":false,"can_act":false},{"id":10,"count":0,"hidden":false,"can_act":false},{"id":7,"count":0,"hidden":false,"can_act":false}],"chunk_size":20,"bookmarked":false,"topic_timer":null,"message_bus_last_id":0,"participant_count":3,"show_read_indicator":false,"thumbnails":null,"slow_mode_enabled_until":null,"tags_disable_ads":false,"related_topics":[{"fancy_title":"Interoperable Serendipity","id":4738,"title":"Interoperable Serendipity","slug":"interoperable-serendipity","posts_count":7,"reply_count":2,"highest_post_number":7,"image_url":"https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex017/uploads/solidproject/original/2X/5/5b12055665e291e506b262f9a298270cd3955d69.png","created_at":"2021-10-12T08:09:43.030Z","last_posted_at":"2021-10-17T17:20:01.012Z","bumped":true,"bumped_at":"2021-10-17T17:20:01.012Z","archetype":"regular","unseen":false,"pinned":false,"unpinned":null,"visible":true,"closed":false,"archived":false,"bookmarked":null,"liked":null,"tags":[],"tags_descriptions":{},"like_count":11,"views":2296,"category_id":1,"featured_link":null,"op_like_count":5,"has_accepted_answer":false,"posters":[{"extras":null,"description":"Original Poster","user":{"id":449,"username":"NoelDeMartin","name":"Noel De Martin","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/noeldemartin/{size}/3144_2.png","trust_level":2}},{"extras":null,"description":"Frequent 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deleted]","slug":"post-deleted","posts_count":14,"reply_count":2,"highest_post_number":15,"image_url":null,"created_at":"2023-01-03T12:45:40.304Z","last_posted_at":"2023-09-28T09:40:11.155Z","bumped":true,"bumped_at":"2023-10-26T06:35:49.792Z","archetype":"regular","unseen":false,"pinned":false,"unpinned":null,"visible":true,"closed":false,"archived":false,"bookmarked":null,"liked":null,"tags":[],"tags_descriptions":{},"like_count":55,"views":3736,"category_id":1,"featured_link":null,"op_like_count":22,"has_accepted_answer":false,"posters":[{"extras":null,"description":"Original Poster","user":{"id":3,"username":"RubenVerborgh","name":"","avatar_template":"https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ad7895/{size}.png","trust_level":4}},{"extras":null,"description":"Frequent Poster","user":{"id":120,"username":"linonetwo","name":"Lin Onetwo","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/linonetwo/{size}/4039_2.png","trust_level":2}},{"extras":null,"description":"Frequent Poster","user":{"id":1814,"username":"mrkvon","name":"michal","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/mrkvon/{size}/3768_2.png","trust_level":2}},{"extras":null,"description":"Recent Poster","user":{"id":828,"username":"josephguillaume","name":"Joseph Guillaume","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/josephguillaume/{size}/1072_2.png","trust_level":2}},{"extras":"latest","description":"Most Recent Poster","user":{"id":1108,"username":"srosset81","name":"Sébastien Rosset","avatar_template":"/user_avatar/forum.solidproject.org/srosset81/{size}/4482_2.png","trust_level":2}}]},{"fancy_title":"Problems and goals for interoperability","id":3184,"title":"Problems and goals for interoperability","slug":"problems-and-goals-for-interoperability","posts_count":2,"reply_count":0,"highest_post_number":4,"image_url":null,"created_at":"2020-06-08T01:35:33.997Z","last_posted_at":"2021-06-06T11:08:08.993Z","bumped":true,"bumped_at":"2021-06-06T11:08:08.993Z","archetype":"regular","unseen":false,"pinned":true,"unpinned":null,"excerpt":"One of the first initiatives that we worked on under the interoperability panel was an attempt to articulate the fundamental problems that actually needed to be solved to deliver on Solid’s aim to decouple applications f\u0026hellip;","visible":true,"closed":false,"archived":false,"bookmarked":null,"liked":null,"tags":[],"tags_descriptions":{},"like_count":11,"views":1712,"category_id":36,"featured_link":null,"op_like_count":9,"has_accepted_answer":false,"posters":[{"extras":null,"description":"Original Poster","user":{"id":2,"username":"justin","name":"Justin 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